Fiat Dino Tacho

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Re: Fiat Dino Tacho

Postby Stefan2000 » Thu May 28, 2015 2:27 pm

I asked them and got a reply but they were not to cooperative answering the specific questions. They say it can overheat because of the housing itself also heats up in the engine bay... Well, ik would think that eventhough it's in the enginebay it would not exceed 100 degrees and it should still be able to handle the specified 20Amps.... but anyway.
On the other hand, i just remembered that when i went to the dyno the guy over there told me that the 123 is sometimes causing problems mostly in aircooled posche engines because of position of the ignition and temperature of the warm air blown through the engine bay. So it might has something to do with it.
Could (i guess he ment would) give me no information about the maximum coil current.
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Re: Fiat Dino Tacho

Postby alh » Sat May 30, 2015 10:01 am

Ok, then it seems to be a design issue (not enough cooling/metal surface available to cool down the IGBT). BSMpdi solved this a bit more elegantly by separating the pickup in the distributor from the control/load electronics so they don't have a temperature problem. The setup with the MSD 6A and the 123 as trigger should work nicely though.
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Re: Fiat Dino Tacho

Postby Stefan2000 » Wed Jun 10, 2015 11:49 am

Just installed the MSD and i have a working tacho again :D
Took me a day to install it properly because i did not want to cut in the original wiring (also not the original coil terminals on the wiring) and as minimum as possible in the 123 and MSD wiring. Just going to test it for a month or so and than i will cut the 123 and MSD wiring to the disired length so that all the wiring runs nicely around the engine bay. Also did not want to drill holes in the engine bay so i made a stainless plate with threaded ends welded to it to attach the MSD to. Made this plate fit the original hole pattern of the Dinoplex. Right now i can still replace this system with the original dinoplex without any signs that the system has ever been replaced.

The 123 MSD setup seems to work nice though. I don't notice an awfull lot of improvement eventhough i would like to tell myself it does. But i do think it has a bit better midrange, slightly better throttle response and it just runs slightly more cultivated. I think an improved laufkultur as the germans say would be a good explanation. I would think that just only a 123 ignition should work good enough but it's a bit on the edge of what the engine would like.

One question for you adrian, i did not install the 80Ohm 5Watt resistor yet. I read on the interweb that there were some more people with a 123 MSD setup that just wired it like it is and i also read on the website of the american dealer of 123 iginition that you can wire it just as it is. Would you recommend to install the resistor anyway just for security reason (maybe on the long term?) or do you thing that if it works like this it should be fine? I can imagine that a bit of switching load would be nice for the 123.
If you recommend to install the resistor i will do so.

Image

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Re: Fiat Dino Tacho

Postby alh » Wed Jun 10, 2015 12:09 pm

I think that the MSD has an internal ballast pulldown on the points wire, so you should be fine not installing any additional ballast resistor. You should see a difference in much easier hot and cold starts, when doing low speed driving (no plug fouling) in the city as well as in high revs (better throttle response) with the MSD 6A compared to the 123.
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Re: Fiat Dino Tacho

Postby Stefan2000 » Wed Jun 10, 2015 7:17 pm

I will test it a bit more thoroughly the next couple weeks, but i'm confident that it has improved.
In any case thanks a lot for all the valuable information, i really appreciate it and it has been a huge help.
Great to find a forum with knowledgable people that are also willing to share there knowledge!
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Re: Fiat Dino Tacho

Postby alh » Wed Jun 10, 2015 8:47 pm

You are welcome :)
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Re: Fiat Dino Tacho

Postby Stefan2000 » Fri Jun 12, 2015 12:36 pm

Today i took it out for a spin. I must agree that the engine does feel and respond as sweet as a nut. I did notice today that the MSD does make a difference compared to the previous configuration. Really torqie and it picks up sweet at every rpm unregardless of whatever gear i'm in and it's taking off like a bullet at higher rpm's. Tend to notice less vibration and a more noticable exhaust roar. Money well spend if you ask me.
Right now i drive a nearly identical advance curve as here: http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/206-24 ... 246gt.html
Funny enough it was the advance curve that the guy on the Dyno programmed for me and now i just see that it's pretty much identical. Only diffence is that the guy on the dyno did not dare to advance futher than 35degrees.
Additional to that curve i have 6 degrees of additional vacuum advance.
Might give my 'mechanical advance' some 2 to 3 degrees less between 1000 and 2500rpm to stay on the safe side though.....

Greetings from a happy driver.
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Re: Fiat Dino Tacho

Postby DinoTomNL » Sat Nov 07, 2015 3:48 pm

Hi Stefan,

Great project! Came across your 123 ignition via a photo at the Alfaclub forum and recognized a Dino engine bay:)


I was curious; how did you fit a 123 as there isn't one specificly for the dino?! Did you make an adapter or so?



Best regards
Tom
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Re: Fiat Dino Tacho

Postby Stefan2000 » Sat Nov 07, 2015 5:20 pm

Hai Tom,

I think dinoparts or superperformance sell them ready to bolt on but not really cheap (but considering the all aluminum milled adapter flange that comes with it also not really expensive).
I just made a drawing of the flange and had it cut out on a waterjet, then made a bushing on the lathe and a 'drive wheel' to connect it to the camshaft.
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Re: Fiat Dino Tacho

Postby Scalino » Sat Jul 29, 2017 1:38 pm

I'm not sure wether I should open a separate thread for this, but as it was previously mentioned in the tread I think it fits in here.

We have 123 ignition installed in our Dino, wether that's a good option is debatable, but it's there. Anyway since the installation the tacho has been all over the place. I have ordered an adapter from Dinoparts, which should solve the problem.

However Adrian raised the possibility of having the Dinoplex along side the 123, with the 123 only handeling the triggering.

alh wrote:BTW, you could also reinstall your Dinoplex and connect it to the 123 (black wire of the 123 to [D] wire of the Dinoplex, tacho wire also to the [D] wire). That way the 123 would handle the ignition advance, and the Dinoplex manages the spark. The tacho should work without modification/zener diode in this setup.


The advantage would be a working tacho without the adapter and a better spark, but without points to maintain.

Now I'm nowhere near an expert in electronics and ignitions, I do like to find out how things work and I'm learning as I go. But if this means I shouldn't try anything like this without understanding everything 100%, please say so. I'm simply looking at this because I find it interesting and it would solve a problem as well as improving performance.


Now some questions:

- First of all; is there a change/is it likely either the Dinoplex or the 123 ignition could be damaged by trying this (with everything wired as it should)?

- What coil should be used? I expect either the Magneti Marelli BZR 205A or Magneti Marelli BAE202B as those are the only ones compatible with the Dinoplex and in this configuration the 123 ignition simply takes over the place of the points distributor.

- Assuming either the Magneti Marelli BZR 205A or Magneti Marelli BAE202B would have to be used, would that be a problem for the 123 ignition (with a possibly lower resistance than 1 ohm, could find the specs of either)? I don't think so, as you wouldn't wire the 123 ignition to the coil (right?), but to the ballast resistor and a separate 12 V feed for power (Going of Adrians suggested wiring here of the black wire of the 123 ignition going to the D terminal and supplying the 123 ignition 12V from a separate feed on the red wire).

I think those questions cover wether and how it would be possible. Again I'm not the most knowledgeable on this subject, so if it wouldn't be wise to try this (even with the experts on here as assistance ;) ), please don't be shy to tell me.
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