Programmable MSD ignition in Dinoplex case.

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Stefan2000
Posts: 167
Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2015 8:42 am
Dino: Fiat Dino 2.0 Coupe
Location: The Netherlands
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Programmable MSD ignition in Dinoplex case.

Post by Stefan2000 »

One of the projects that was still on my to do list for 'when I have some time' was to make a programmable ignition system and build in into a Dinoplex case.
Adrian made it before using a programmable MSD ignition and I sounded like a perfect setup to me.
So I ordered a programmable MSD6AL-2 ignition box. This ignition advances timing electronically relative to engine speed so no mechanical advance system is required anymore.
I traced a spare distributor and removed the whole mechanical advance system and locked it in place. After that I installed one of my chopper wheels, base plate and a OS50 optical sensor.

When that was finised I took one of my reproduction AEC101 dinoplex cases and milled it out internally to be able to get the MSD ignition in there. Both the dinoplex case as well as the MSD case needed quite some machining to make it fit but in the end I was able to get it in there. Adrian advised me to make a voltage regulator for the optical sensor so I made that and was able to get it into the case as well.

When I finished all the machine work it was time to put the correct advance into the ignition system. Using the MSD software provided with the ignition system it was really easy to program. With the MSD programmed I made a setup so that I could benchtest the system on my distributor test machine. Hooked it up completely with distributor cap and 6 spark plugs and ran it for an hour or so.
Seems to work perfect so far. Ignition advances really smooth (as you would expect with an electronic system).
Now i'll just have to wait for a couple months so that I can install it in my car and test drive it but I'm confident that this will be a really nice setup that will never need any attention anymore. The MSD systems are well known for their reliability, that combined with not having any mechanical parts like points and advance weights/springs anymore must be a nice upgrade.
MSD in Dinoplex case
MSD in Dinoplex case
Distributor with locked shaft
Distributor with locked shaft
20171230_194130.jpg
20171230_194701.jpg
Luis A
Posts: 86
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2017 12:35 am
Dino: Fiat Dino 2.4 Coupe

Re: Programmable MSD ignition in Dinoplex case.

Post by Luis A »

Very nice Stefan. Since the MSD box now lives inside the Dinoplex box with no air flowing over it to cool it off, did you somehow couple the MSD box with conductive grease compound to the Dinoplex case such that the MSD can still dissipate its heat load?

What means did you use to lock up the advance mechanism?

Luis
Stefan2000
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Re: Programmable MSD ignition in Dinoplex case.

Post by Stefan2000 »

I just made some bushes that slide over the pivot point where normally the weights are attached to. These bushes keep the 3-lobe cam in place.
I'm not worried about heat, in the MSD unit there is really not much attached to the case anyway, there are just some transistors bolted to the case, and they still are right now but that's it. The case is just there for protection of the electrical components i guess.
Luis A
Posts: 86
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2017 12:35 am
Dino: Fiat Dino 2.4 Coupe

Re: Programmable MSD ignition in Dinoplex case.

Post by Luis A »

OK, I couldn't make out from the photo if the weights were still in there or not, thanks for the clarification. Looks like a simple thing to do. In light of this, Rob's (on Ferrarichat) development of a custom shaft with no weight tray for these distributors seems like a lot of work and expense for not much benefit...

So if I recall correctly, you have now run your Dino with the 123 ignition (rotor burnt out; poor long term reliability), the Bosch high-current inductive module and now you're going to a CDI system. I would be very interested to know if you notice any objective or subjective difference between the Bosch inductive and the MSD CDI, since you had prior concerns about the shorter CDI spark duration vs. the longer Bosch/inductive spark duration.

Luis
Scalino
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Re: Programmable MSD ignition in Dinoplex case.

Post by Scalino »

I'm looking forward to your experience after driving it and being able to compare with the different setups you have used in the past. A few weeks ago I had another look at some of your reproduction Dinoplex cases (at Bart), all I can say is they look brilliant!
dino176
Posts: 62
Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2013 6:29 pm
Dino: Fiat Dino 2.0 Spider

Re: Programmable MSD ignition in Dinoplex case.

Post by dino176 »

Hi
I did something similar, but I just hooked the below box before the Bosch setup from Adrian. The box only controls the advance and the Bosch module still gives the spark. Works perfekt and it makes a big difference to change the advance. I have full advance already around 3000 RPM, it makes the engine much more drivable also at low Rpm, it also accelerates much better. I am really funned of this system.
https://www.cbperformance.com/product-p/2013.htm
Regards Jesper
Stefan2000
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Re: Programmable MSD ignition in Dinoplex case.

Post by Stefan2000 »

I think the custom shaft is nice to have but i don't think it is 100% necessary. You want to be really sure that the whole shaft setup is without play, best way would be to go for a solid shaft but i think the way i locked it down right now is also perfectly fine.

I indeed started with just a 123 ignition. It was running fine and i got it on a dyno with this setup and had every HP it had left when it left the factory 50 years ago so that was working OK'ish. The only problem i had was that it was eating spark plugs, i needed to replace them every 1000km because at least one of them would blow up every 1000km.

Then i installed the MSD ignition that was triggered by the 123 ignition, it ran even better. I drove about 10.000km with that setup and it was working fine. I just needed to replace the 123-ignition rotor often because the MSD ignition just fried the rotors because of it's high output i assume. At some point i experienced misfires with that setup, that combined with the fact that optically it was not period correct so that made me decide to get rid of it.

Then i had these dinoplex cases reproduced to install a Bosch module in and installed the Bosch inductive setup that Adrian developed. It is functioning totally fine, it works as good as the MSD ignition in my opinion.

The reason i now want to switch to the programmable MSD is mostly because of test-purpose.
This guy from https://nl-nl.facebook.com/Nose2TailCCE/ who is rebuilding many dino engines asked me if i could rebuild the distributors for their engines because i have a distributor testing machine. But after seeing a couple of distributors i noticed that many of them are so far worn out that they need so much money in spare parts alone and than a lot of time getting the advance right that it would be a much better option to convert all these engines they build to a setup that does not need these distributors to go thru that whole process. In the end it would be the cheaper and more reliable option i think.
What is important to me is that no original parts have to be machined in order to make the ignition function, so it should always have to be possible to convert back to original. There are ignition conversions where they machine the distributor housing to fit a 123 ignition in there but that is a no-go to me.
it has to look 100% stock.
It has to be proven to be reliable and only an MSD ignition and the Bosch conversion are in my opinion.
Spiderman
Posts: 131
Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2013 5:47 pm
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Re: Programmable MSD ignition in Dinoplex case.

Post by Spiderman »

Fantastic work, I really look forward to your updates, when this set up is installed in your car.

You should think about making this conversion available to us fellow Dino owners, am sure a lot of us would be interested.

Cheers
Luis A
Posts: 86
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2017 12:35 am
Dino: Fiat Dino 2.4 Coupe

Re: Programmable MSD ignition in Dinoplex case.

Post by Luis A »

dino176 wrote:Hi
I did something similar, but I just hooked the below box before the Bosch setup from Adrian. The box only controls the advance and the Bosch module still gives the spark. Works perfekt and it makes a big difference to change the advance. I have full advance already around 3000 RPM, it makes the engine much more drivable also at low Rpm, it also accelerates much better. I am really funned of this system.
https://www.cbperformance.com/product-p/2013.htm
Regards Jesper
Hi Jesper, I have looked at that box online and wondered how it would work. Sounds like you have been successful with it. Can you provide details of how you wired it up between the optical sensor and the Bosch module.

Luis
dino176
Posts: 62
Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2013 6:29 pm
Dino: Fiat Dino 2.0 Spider

Re: Programmable MSD ignition in Dinoplex case.

Post by dino176 »

Hi
It very easy, the CB box just needs 12V and ground and the it takes the signal from the optical sensor. The Bosch unit will the see the "advanced" signal from the CB box. The attached diagram was just made for my own use, please bare with me on the pure layout.
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Skærmbillede 2018-01-06 kl. 19.13.55.png
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