Dino Spider at Auction

[Spiderman]

https://silverstoneauctions.com/sa076-l ... n=1&pp=100

I have no knowledge of this car, does anyone else know it?

[ebrown5686]

Thanks Spiderman, for bringing out that pretty spider! Something caught my attention when I was reading through the description...this 2-liter car is claimed to have an engine bored out to 2400cc's! Is this something that is commonly done? Can the magnesium/aluminum block handle the thinner bores without harm? Just curious...can anyone chime in on this?
Thanks, Ed

[ThomasK]

You can use special liners, they are also readily available, in which you can use the 2,4 pistons. Together with the 2 Liter crankshaft it sums up to 2,3 liter. The so called 2,3 liter Conversion. The bore equals then the 2,4 liter. I guess this is done/meant here.

[ebrown5686]

Thanks ThomasK! This leaves me wondering a bit as to why cast-iron blocks were needed in the 2.4 engines to start with, at least for Ferrari 246's. Cost? Reliability? I guess the answer to that probably can only be found in the decisions of Fiat and Ferrari.

[bhiggins2]

Has anyone on this forum actually replaced a bad cylinder liner on a 2000 engine? If so, was it difficult and what did it require? I have a spare 2000 engine and several of the liners had pistons stuck in them for decades and there is most likely too much corrosion to bore out and fit oversized pistons. I am not talking about the 2.3 conversion, just replacing stock cylinder liners with stock liners. Has anyone heard of boring the liner in place and fitting a sleeve inside to restore the liner to the stock diameter? A friend of mine insists they do it all the time for diesel engines.
Thanks, Ben.

[Ribolla_67]

Thanks ThomasK! This leaves me wondering a bit as to why cast-iron blocks were needed in the 2.4 engines to start with, at least for Ferrari 246's. Cost? Reliability? I guess the answer to that probably can only be found in the decisions of Fiat and Ferrari.

We all know that the first Fiat Dino series were developed under extreme time pressure. The tooling and machinery lead times did not allow to start serial production with cast iron. So Fiat and Ferrari had to start with an Gen 2 prototype alumium block which survived - after painful failures and modifications- the standard Fiat 500 hrs durability test.

The key disadvantage of an aluminium block was lack of resilience against thermal stress, cold start could ruin a Dino engine in the same way every Alfa Romeo 105 / 101 / 116 owner knows. Golden rule: never touch the accelerator pedal before the first 15 min or 15 km .

Modern aluminium engines are optimized via Finite Element methods (e.g. head / block compound simulation), so this challenge is solved.

The key disadvantage of a cast iron block is cost: you need expensive, robust machines, expensive tooling, and the machining times are quite high compared with aluminium, where the tools go through like a hot knife through butter. This is the main reason why modern axle drive and transmission housings are designed in aluminium as well as engine blocks.

The final judgment about a Dino 246 / Stratos / Fiat 2400 block: very expensive but robust and resilient.

[ebrown5686]

Very robust and resilient sounds good to me! I guess it comes at a cost of around 90 pounds on the nose? I don't really feel my Dino is particularly ponderous at any speed, though. I've never had the pleasure of driving any 2-liter spiders, with the exception of a couple of really worn-out cars with many suspension problems and bad tires. I'll bet a nice one is really a treat to drive.
Right now, I'm wishing I had a robust and resilient Dinoplex, at least until I can get it fixed! Probably going to an MSD for now.
Ed

[HugoHarris]

I'm goint to the Silverstone auction viewing, happy to inspect the Spider for anyone interested in it who can't be there.

[HugoHarris]

Hi Ed, I am probably jinxing things by speaking too soon, but I believe I have attained "robust and resilient ignition" status! Stefan (see most other threads on the topic on this forum) has supplied a new distributor body with electronic conversion (no points, bob weights or other moving parts) coupled with a modern programmable MSD unit and coil. So far so awesome - apart from some fettling with carbs I have been enjoying driving my car with total confidence and using the recently run in engine the way Vittorio and Enzo intended!

I'm OK with the modification given that it is totally reversable. This set-up has enabled me to remove my original distributor, Dinoplex and coil intact - in due course I will have them refurbished and set them aside for my son to install out of curiousity in 20 years' time! The MSD unit isn't particularly pretty, and if I can get hold of a spare Dinoplex casing in the future I may go back to Stefan to ask him to hide the MSD gubbins inside. But for now reliability is the priority.

When I have put a few more miles on it I will post in more detail on this.

Stefan's website is here: https://www.elshoutengineering.com/

[Spiderman]

I was supposed to be going on Saturday, but don't think I am going to make it..

I think the 2L that is for sale, might have been at Fosker's prior to being entered in the auction..