Clutch pressure plate

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Georg
Posts: 199
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2014 6:55 pm
Dino: Fiat Dino 2.4 Spider
Location: Germany

Re: Clutch pressure plate

Post by Georg »

Hi Richard,
I own both Fiat Dino 2400 and Fiat 130 3200, all equipped with ZF S5/18 gear boxes. I have worked on the clutches of both cars and gained some experience and insights. Both model’s clutches are very similar and in many points identical.
Fiat had issued a book “norme per le riparazioni” for the Fiat 130, which to my knowledge does not exist for the Fiat Dino 2400. In this book – dedicated to the FIAT mechanics – you will find detailed descriptions of how to repair the car.
There is also included a detailed section on the clutch which I have attached here in format PDF. Unfortunately in Italian language. A translator will help to read.
To my understanding, a clutch mechanism and its working is nothing trivial. Often it comes to millimetres or even less to make something working properly.
My concern is that Dino clutch reproductions on the market may look like the original, but do not work like it. When it comes to the clutch, I have always been happy with refurbishing both the disk and the pressure plate at ZF Classics. And it is much cheaper than the offered reproductions.
Georg
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Clutch Fiat 130.pdf
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doublegarage
Posts: 212
Joined: Thu Nov 14, 2013 4:22 am
Dino: Fiat Dino 2.4 Coupe
Location: California, USA

Re: Clutch pressure plate

Post by doublegarage »

Thanks Georg, especially for the document.

I speak Italian but the specific technical language in something like this clutch manual always takes time to translate properly. I have a long aeroplane journey tomorrow - maybe then!

This option of refurbishment by ZF Classics - that's a new idea. I was about to contact them for the parts for my ZF S5 gearbox, so I will discuss with them then.

I was able to examine my old clutch pressure plate more carefully when "visiting" my engine at the machinist this week. The 'fingers' where the pushout bearing meets the plate are quite worn down - so I would need someone who can replace all those.

You wrote "My concern is that Dino clutch reproductions on the market may look like the original, but do not work like it. " Exactly! And in fact they don't even LOOK like the the original, not even close. So I am concerned about how well it will work. Just the one report so far from Stefan that it works well on his 130.

Both of you with 130s and Dinos - I have been searching for a good 130 here in California for years - very difficult to import one so I need one that's already here - not many around!

Thanks again,
-Richard
Georg
Posts: 199
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2014 6:55 pm
Dino: Fiat Dino 2.4 Spider
Location: Germany

Re: Clutch pressure plate

Post by Georg »

Richard, my point of contact at ZF was Frank Laß, T: +49 521 417 30. Or email frank.lass@zf.com. However, it's some years ago, not sure he is still on board. In ZF, the division is based in Bielefeld.
Georg
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doublegarage
Posts: 212
Joined: Thu Nov 14, 2013 4:22 am
Dino: Fiat Dino 2.4 Coupe
Location: California, USA

Re: Clutch pressure plate

Post by doublegarage »

I have now completed the rebuild on my Fiat Dino 2400 Coupe - the engine and gearbox are back in the car and I've driven it a little.

So I thought I should explain what I did to make the Superformance (SF) clutch kit work in the car.

As a reminder from earlier in the thread:
1) the clutch pressure plate is about 10mm thinner than the original - i.e. the "fingers" where the throwout bearing engages are 10mm closer to the flywheel - this completely screws up the clutch-lever + mechanism engagement. You can't adjust out that much difference
2) The new pressure plate only has 3 holes for the 6 dowels used on the flywheel. And the 3 that correspond are the wrong size

1) I determined it wasn't going to work in the car - the clutch actuation lever would hit the gearbox casing before it disengaged the clutch. The best solution I could come up with was to re-position the ball inside the bell-housing on which the clutch lever pivots. See picture. This compensates for the thinner pressure plate. I did ultimately use a real spacer (not washers) and the thread is long enough.
dino1.jpg
2) I had to have the flywheel holes bored so that the bigger dowels could be re-positioned into the smaller dowel holes. But the holes in the pressure plate that corresponded were too small - so those holes also had to be opened up. I wish I had photographed all this better, sorry.

So, in short, if you buy a clutch kit from either Superformance or DinoParts or MrFiat, all of whom sell the same incompatible kits, you will have to modify the flywheel, the brand new pressure plate and the bellhousing.

Having done all that, it seems to work - but ask me again when I've done 2000 km.

Earlier in the thread, Georg suggests the best solution is to have the clutch plate rebuilt by ZF, I did make contact with Herr Lass at ZF and he offered to help, but because of severe wear on the fingers of my old plate, I opted to go the above route. Maybe next time I won't.

Thanks for all the help from everybody above and offline - and if i can answer any other questions then please ask.

-Richard
Luis A
Posts: 86
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2017 12:35 am
Dino: Fiat Dino 2.4 Coupe

Re: Clutch pressure plate

Post by Luis A »

Great follow up Richard, thanks.

For future reference, is the contact info at ZF still as Georg posted it above?

-Luis
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doublegarage
Posts: 212
Joined: Thu Nov 14, 2013 4:22 am
Dino: Fiat Dino 2.4 Coupe
Location: California, USA

Re: Clutch pressure plate

Post by doublegarage »

Hi Luis,

yes - I found him at frank.lass@zf.com

his full contact details:
ZF Group
Nutzfahrzeugtechnik/Commercial Vehicle Technology
ZF Friedrichshafen AG
Windelsbleicher Straße 80, 33647 Bielefeld, Deutschland/Germany
Telefon/Phone: +49 521 41703 30, Fax: +49 521 41703 77 0030
frank.lass@zf.com

And by the way, if you're rebuilding the ZF gearbox on 2400 Dinos, I would highly recommend not to buy from Superformance or DinoParts and instead go direct to Christian Restau at "ZF Tradition", who amazingly stock every part (almost) for our gearboxes and will ship quickly worldwide. Needless to say their knowledge and expertise are the best.

Christian Restau
ZF Tradition
ZF Friedrichshafen AG
88038 Friedrichshafen, Deutschland / Germany
Telefon/Phone +49 7541 77-4700
christian.restau@zf.com ; http://www.zf.com

-Richard
Bijan
Posts: 43
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2014 5:04 pm
Dino: Fiat Dino 2.4 Coupe

Re: Clutch pressure plate

Post by Bijan »

Hi Richard,

thanks for sharing all this information with us. After a long "Dino break" I have finally begun again working on
my Dino this winter. I have ordered a clutch made by the Italian company E. Sassone sold by the German classic
Fiat parts dealer Holtmann&Niedergerke. I measured the components and they seem to be in spec:

the height of the pressure plate is maybe 2mm higher than the original, but maybe my old pressure plate is worn.
The three bigger dowels have to be removed, the three smaller ones can stay where they are.

The clutch disc has exactly the same strength as a new original part. I have not driven the car as it is still disassembled
for a bigger drivetrain overhaul, but I will share if it has worked with you once everything has been put together again.

Regards
Bijan
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doublegarage
Posts: 212
Joined: Thu Nov 14, 2013 4:22 am
Dino: Fiat Dino 2.4 Coupe
Location: California, USA

Re: Clutch pressure plate

Post by doublegarage »

Hi Bijan,

That sounds like a good new source for clutch parts - thanks for the info.

yes let us know how it works - pictures are always good!

-Richard
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