hardware re plating. What is correct what is not?

[dinoverde]

I would like to start a discussion here concerning what are the correct finishes for the different hardware parts for a 2400 fiat dino spider.
I have finally embarqued on what promesses to be a long and tedious restoration on my 2400 spider. I sold my 2liter and my 2400 coupe for what will certainly be not a cheap endeavor. But i will try my best to make this car as new and correct as possible.
The car is currently being striped of everything.. Bare shell. I will do all the assembly work and most of the mechanical work(I have restored a couple cars in the past ..the last one being a 67 xke coupe.. a lot of parts on an xke..)
Then all the hardware will be refinished hopefully with the proper finish. cadmium, or black phosphate.
Where it get's tricky is to decide what is right and what is not. There are not too many pictures available of original cars that show all these details. Some factory pictures are colored drawings and most of the documentation i have to not clearly show those details. I am calling on this board to share it's individual knowledge regarding original finishing on original parts.
I have seen brake calipers,refinished in clear cad color(grey) and some in yellow car(gold). My inclination is to powder paint all the metal suspension parts satin black. Yellow car all the bolts marked fiat,and have all the engine nuts and bolts clear cad plated. I wonder if like on jaguar there was any logique regarding hardware colors. Some of the carburetor linkages appear to have been yellow cad,..but again with the passing of time they could have been clear car or even black phosphate..It would be great if we could put our common knowledge and establish some clearer idea of what the original cars were like.
As far as the engine block color I have a factory pamphlet that shows the block, the drive shaft yoke and the water pump pulley as being bright red.. What should it be?
As for the valve covers..they are now a gold color.I know they have been redone. I have seen black one and on my brochure they are silver.. I understand that 2400 valve covers for the 2400 were aluminum, but my car being a very early 2400 it never had the electrical brake vacuum pump that kept air in the vacuum tank. The passenger valve cover does not have the proper fitting to hook the line that goes to the pump. So it still could have magnesium valve covers. This car does not even have the electric brake lines that go to the front brake pads.However it has the double piston front calipers.
Should the hardware on the engine compartment firewall be a certain color?
I am planning to reuse as much as the original nuts and bolts, and i use a very good outfit in Los angeles that is very good with reconditionning automotive hardware.(techplate).
If you have information to contribute to my request please share them and if you can also post pictures it would be great to document all this. After all there is going to be less and less original cars with this factory details, so we should all benefit from finding out now what is correct and what is not.
Hervé

[dinoverde]

Hi Fellow
any feedback on this topic?

[Guzzi]

I think it will be difficult to replicate original plating because I don't think there was ever a standard approach, perhaps your approach should be as simple as plated/not plated? Your plater should be able to help if you take him samples. In addition, certain plating materials (e.g. cadmium) are no longer available. The only standard I know of is Dow anodising for Electron alloys.

Sorry I can't be much more help

Peter

[mostromilano]

Having been exposed to 2 very unmolested and well-preserved cars in the recent past (and another that I am currently recommissioning), I am casually compiling a reference of what you seek.

A few tidbits:

The valve covers should absolutely be bare aluminum if they are alumium. If they are truly magnesium (unlikely as Fiat moved from Mg to Al sometime in 69 according to those who really delved into those details in the 246 world). Soda blasting gives excellent results and looks very correct/believable on Al. For any Mg part on the car, the correct finish is Dow 7 which is a dichromate.

The carburetor hardware should all be yellow cad plated on all 2.4 cars (Weber changed from clear/silver to yellow cad in 1968 sometime).

The anchor bolts on the suspension I've come across (FIAT) seem to be clear. They are most certainly not yellow.

Girling brake calipers for the 2.4 were shared with other cars (Maserati and maybe a Pantera?) and were gray colored.

Powder coating looks good when new, but if it chips - it is very obvious and is not easily "repaired." Modern oil based paint on well-prepped parts will last decades and is near effortless to touch up. I suggest using paint. Even the cheapest spray paint will last longer than the original stuff. I use Rust Tough krylon semi-flat black and it is unbelievably good. I suggest warming the parts in the sunshine prior to painting. Painting also subscribes to the "correct" and original mantra.


At the end of the day, it's only original once - and it's an Italian coachbuilt car... In the case of the 2.4 liter cars there were 3 distinct outfits that assembled them! Bertone or Pininfarina built and delivered the bodies, FIAT built the engines, and then final assembly in Maranello. What a recipe for inconsistency! As Peter suggests, maybe a simpler approach will leave you with more sanity, a great looking car, and more time for driving. My point? Make it look relatively cohesive and believable, and it will be as "correct" as it really can be...

[Guzzi]

I think you have admirable intention, trying to be as true as possible. Perhaps batch up all the items that look similar, and asked your plater for advice?

A small story. I have an interest in 4cyl Healeys, large and small. At one time, when Geoff Healey was in Australia, there was a display of cars at which an 'expert' was declaiming on the 'correct' grade of Hardura and screws used for the boot (trunk) trim. Geoff Healey, who was standing behind this conversation, listened for a while and then turned away saying "we just used what we had".

Perhaps your guide should be a brochure or other sales literature because that will be the 'most correct' specification in that it reflects and actual car of the period? Unlike today, manufacturers in the '60s used actual production cars rather than specially prepared display cars.

All that being said, we will be happy to help in your quest.

[dinoverde]

Hi
I love this board..you always have very valuable infos..
I took the calipers apart and the inside of the calipers seem to be zinc or cad color as well as most of the metal parts around the king pins..so clear cad is probably the cold i will choose..
Some of the bolts marked fiat 80 seem to have been both yellow or clear cad(some inconsistency there) I might elect to be inconsistent as well.. Some of the nylocks are clear some are yellow..again more inconsistency..Some of the bolts of the rear suspension are a mix bag also..I think i will try to have more clear than yellow. (so the car does not look over done). On the engine i will use black and clear except for the carbs hardware(linkages will be a mixture also..some yellow some clear).
On the inside engine compartment walls i will stick to clear and black...
This is going to take a long time , but i intend it to be my keeper..i will certainly be posting for more help in the futur..
thanks
Hervé

[Tobi]

Here's a page from a 2400 Coupe flyer. However, I would not bet on the fact that this is as produced. This may also be specially prepared for the flyer.

[rossnzwpi]

Hi, I think Tobi is right - I can't remember seeing a 2400 with red block and pulleys! The finish on the aluminium parts appears rather golden in many old photos and brochures I have seen too. We should remember that "prepped" images for promotional material was used for the FIAT Dino and also that old photographs, even the best kept of them, suffer colour shift with ageing. The 2000 engine was similarly prepped and some publicity photos are of prototypes and even previous models. The 246GT "Ferrari" brochure initially used a 206GT, for example.
My 2000 engine is very early and the finish on the cam covers was very blackened, with hints of gold so I'll be trying for Dow 7, I think.
cheers
Ross in NZ

[rossnzwpi]

Oh, and if you look at the photo from Mike Morris' marvellous book posted here in the downloads section - you can see 2400 engines ready for installation at Maranello. The cast iron blocks appear painted black and the aluminium bits look like clean fresh aluminium
cheers
Ross in NZ

[iceblue]

Herve, I am confident that you will this a car a spectacular car like the rest your latest accomplishments.
Knowing you, your car will be outstanding when done. You need to start a new Post on this group to show us the now and then pictures. I am sure we will appreciate and learn from it.

My Dino restoration was the longest and costliest project I have ever embarked.
There was not cutting corners or home made parts.
Bringing back a car to factory standards is difficult and yet rewarding.

Our Dino's were very well build cars!
Go find me a strong ( low production ) 6 cylinder car top down car with similar to our Dino's.

Our Dinos are still under appreciated and are gaining traction.
Apart from the 280SL and the 2.4 Porsche.
Our Dino's is my opinion the last as good as it gets!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRx18eeKX7Q