Gemmer steering box
Moderator: alh
Re: Gemmer steering box
I was under the impression that some of the parts could be sourced from Lada steering boxes, or that the latter could be made to fit. Does anyone else know about this?
Re: Gemmer steering box
The only steering box looking similar to the Gemmer/Dino box seems to be the steering boxes
for FIAT 125/125P/132/Argenta. Also, the 125 box gearing ratio is the same as the Gemmer/Dino
box.
I have overhauled and adopted one of these to fit a Fiat Dino, as a good-to-have spare part, if
the original Gemmer box should stop working.
Fiat 125 box dismantled
The major differences between the 125 and the Gemmer/Dino boxes are 1) the third, front mounting
bolt hole, which has different location compared to the Gemmer/Dino bolt pattern, 2) the in-going
steering shaft and 3) the pitman arm shaft, both having different splines pattern compared to the
Gemmer/Dino box.
To the left, Gemmer/Dino box bolt hole pattern. To the right, 125 box housing.
Fortunately, the 125 pitman arm has the same curved shape as the original Gemmer/Dino arm. It
only needed some "straightning out" work, to fit a Dino. It was done by a professional blacksmith.
125 pitman arm, before straightning-out work
125 pitman arm, after straightning-out work
This project also included welding the cut-off corner back in place, exchanging all bearings, seals
- and a brand new roller shaft! The steering box now works like new, with a very smooth operation.
Measure twice - cut once, to obtain the Gemmer/Dino hole pattern...
A professional airplane repair shop was kind enough welding the parts together.
An internet find, replacing the old roller shaft having a small, but annoying end-play...
The finished,rebuildt and adopted 125/Dino box.
Also, a used, but good 125 steering shaft was obtained, to get an U-joint suitible to the in-going
shaft splines pattern.
Doublegarage and I have measured and compared the actual internal parts for the Gemmer/Dino
and the 125 box - and only the bearings are the same! You cannot use the 125 shafts in a Gemmer/
Dino box. They are similar - but not the same parts!
Dinoswede
for FIAT 125/125P/132/Argenta. Also, the 125 box gearing ratio is the same as the Gemmer/Dino
box.
I have overhauled and adopted one of these to fit a Fiat Dino, as a good-to-have spare part, if
the original Gemmer box should stop working.
Fiat 125 box dismantled
The major differences between the 125 and the Gemmer/Dino boxes are 1) the third, front mounting
bolt hole, which has different location compared to the Gemmer/Dino bolt pattern, 2) the in-going
steering shaft and 3) the pitman arm shaft, both having different splines pattern compared to the
Gemmer/Dino box.
To the left, Gemmer/Dino box bolt hole pattern. To the right, 125 box housing.
Fortunately, the 125 pitman arm has the same curved shape as the original Gemmer/Dino arm. It
only needed some "straightning out" work, to fit a Dino. It was done by a professional blacksmith.
125 pitman arm, before straightning-out work
125 pitman arm, after straightning-out work
This project also included welding the cut-off corner back in place, exchanging all bearings, seals
- and a brand new roller shaft! The steering box now works like new, with a very smooth operation.
Measure twice - cut once, to obtain the Gemmer/Dino hole pattern...
A professional airplane repair shop was kind enough welding the parts together.
An internet find, replacing the old roller shaft having a small, but annoying end-play...
The finished,rebuildt and adopted 125/Dino box.
Also, a used, but good 125 steering shaft was obtained, to get an U-joint suitible to the in-going
shaft splines pattern.
Doublegarage and I have measured and compared the actual internal parts for the Gemmer/Dino
and the 125 box - and only the bearings are the same! You cannot use the 125 shafts in a Gemmer/
Dino box. They are similar - but not the same parts!
Dinoswede
Re: Gemmer steering box
Thanks for the excellent post Dinoswede. Should be a valuable reference for us going forward.
Re: Gemmer steering box
interesting on those re-man parts. Was a quantity ever discussed to have them made?
Just thinking 10 or 12 (maybe 25+ ??) should get snatched up fairly easily. A couple hundred might sit in somebodies' garage 'til the end of time.
Just thinking 10 or 12 (maybe 25+ ??) should get snatched up fairly easily. A couple hundred might sit in somebodies' garage 'til the end of time.
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Tobi
- Site Admin
- Posts: 562
- Joined: Thu Nov 14, 2013 7:56 am
- Dino: Fiat Dino 2.4 Coupe
- Location: Upper Palatinate - Bavaria
Re: Gemmer steering box
Would the innards of a working 125 box fit into the existing housing of a Dino box?
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Gaelicguy
- Posts: 225
- Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2021 5:50 pm
- Dino: Fiat Dino 2.0 Spider
- Location: Central Portugal
Re: Gemmer steering box
I know this might be a sacrilege, but
Has anyone tried to fit a simple rack and pinion. There are literally hundreds of options from early 60’s and 70’s cars.
And I think there is space across the back of the crossmember to fit something like the MGB unit. Remember, there are no moving parts across the gap where the current steering needs room to move back and forth!
Michael
Has anyone tried to fit a simple rack and pinion. There are literally hundreds of options from early 60’s and 70’s cars.
And I think there is space across the back of the crossmember to fit something like the MGB unit. Remember, there are no moving parts across the gap where the current steering needs room to move back and forth!
Michael
Too many motos and cars, not enough life left! 
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Gaelicguy
- Posts: 225
- Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2021 5:50 pm
- Dino: Fiat Dino 2.0 Spider
- Location: Central Portugal
Re: Gemmer steering box or not!
I know this might be a sacrilege, but
Has anyone tried to fit a simple rack and pinion. There are literally hundreds of options from early 60’s and 70’s cars.
And I think there is space across the back of the crossmember to fit something like the MGB unit. Remember, there are no moving parts across the gap where the current steering needs room to move back and forth!
Michael
Has anyone tried to fit a simple rack and pinion. There are literally hundreds of options from early 60’s and 70’s cars.
And I think there is space across the back of the crossmember to fit something like the MGB unit. Remember, there are no moving parts across the gap where the current steering needs room to move back and forth!
Michael
Too many motos and cars, not enough life left!
-
doublegarage
- Posts: 215
- Joined: Thu Nov 14, 2013 4:22 am
- Dino: Fiat Dino 2.4 Coupe
- Location: California, USA
Re: Gemmer steering box
I should post some follow-up info. I do now have a good steering box in the car.
My eventual solution was a used set of steering box internals bought locally. They were also badly damaged, but in a way I thought maybe more repairable. Mine had bad pitting on the worm's main steering surface/teeth = impossible to grind due to the crazy shape. This new worm had the pitting on the end bearing surfaces = normal circular ball races. I took that to the local race-car machinist, along with the Dino's oil-pump (engine was also out at this point) and he said he would try - main problem was there's no hole in one end to mount in the lathe, so he had to drill that (told him I'd buy him a box of drill bits cos that steel is so hard).
He succeeded in repairing the end races (note! for 5/16" balls, not the 8mm balls that DinoParts sells) and I was able to re-assemble and shim appropriately (since he had removed metal to smooth the surfaces). It's back in the cars and a few hundred miles in it feels okay.
Some questions asked above.
- www.chsauto.com in Argentina said they could make new parts easily but minimum order was 30 sets. Superformance never succeeded in establishing a business relationship with CHS so it never happened. CHS certainly were not great at replying to messages and I think SF gave up due to that and other frustrations. Disappointing.
- Fiat 125 internals - see Dinoswede's brilliant explanation above. Yes, but only after cutting/welding the main worm shaft.
- rack and pinion - I'm not aware of anybody trying it. I wish Fiat had.
-Richard
My eventual solution was a used set of steering box internals bought locally. They were also badly damaged, but in a way I thought maybe more repairable. Mine had bad pitting on the worm's main steering surface/teeth = impossible to grind due to the crazy shape. This new worm had the pitting on the end bearing surfaces = normal circular ball races. I took that to the local race-car machinist, along with the Dino's oil-pump (engine was also out at this point) and he said he would try - main problem was there's no hole in one end to mount in the lathe, so he had to drill that (told him I'd buy him a box of drill bits cos that steel is so hard).
He succeeded in repairing the end races (note! for 5/16" balls, not the 8mm balls that DinoParts sells) and I was able to re-assemble and shim appropriately (since he had removed metal to smooth the surfaces). It's back in the cars and a few hundred miles in it feels okay.
Some questions asked above.
- www.chsauto.com in Argentina said they could make new parts easily but minimum order was 30 sets. Superformance never succeeded in establishing a business relationship with CHS so it never happened. CHS certainly were not great at replying to messages and I think SF gave up due to that and other frustrations. Disappointing.
- Fiat 125 internals - see Dinoswede's brilliant explanation above. Yes, but only after cutting/welding the main worm shaft.
- rack and pinion - I'm not aware of anybody trying it. I wish Fiat had.
-Richard